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 Sick of half-hearted editors? 
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Junior Member

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:27 am
Posts: 2
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OK.

I am sick of these efforts towards PHP Editors / IDEs. A lot of them are good, but they all seem to fail in one major area - GUI, usability, code completion, something is always wrong.

What I propose we do is create the last PHP Editor anyone will need. We are all coders right? Why isn't there something well designed that doesn't frustrate the heck out of us?

If anyone is interested, email me at munkywrench@gmail.com. I will assemble a team of developers and see where we go from there.

Thanks all.


Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:31 am
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Junior Member

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:27 am
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Thats just the problem. You can rattle of lists of features but whats the guarantee that anyone will DO anything about it?


Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:15 am
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:24 pm
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not trying to troll, but as a lowly usability guy who also does a ton of php coding, the issue with most things of this nature which gets me all fussy is that there's too many attempts at being an end-all-be-all, kitchen-sink-included application.

my advice to any programmer making *any* non-commercial application is to put your needs first: create the thing exactly as you would want it.

i don't want microsoft office level bloat in a php editor. there's a ton of options as far as which editor i choose out there, and i like that.

make the thing the way you want, and if you take suggestions, only take the ones you think are relevant. if i like your methodology and think the way you look at an editor matches my own, i'll download it, love it, and probably live with it.

sure, syntax highlighting is nice, but if i had my way, i'd like to see block highlighting as well (select a block of text, right click, choose the background highlight color for that block).

you can /sort of/ do that in homesite, but not really.

that might be a feature none of you would ever want or use, but i've now wanted for ages. that said, i wouldn't want you putting it in your editor if you've no use for it: eventually i'll find one that's right for me.

just my .02 :]


Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:22 am
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Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:17 am
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I agree with just about everything you all said. There are too many gimmick features out there. What is needed is some of the pretty basic important ones:

  • Autoindenting that works properly! So many do a so-so job. If you do it like .net studio does, you're ahead of the game.
  • Syntax Highlighting with different types (php, html, css, etc) in same script. Customizable highlighting would be a plus.
  • Coding features: code outlining, intellisense. Class browser.
  • Fast. Cut out the bloat. I don't care about changing the "skin" on my IDE for example.
  • FTP/SSH integration would be nice--to the point where once you've turned it on, saving your file saves it locally and remotely.
  • A good file browser would be nice. Again .net or eclipse style would be great.

Features that are terrible/useless:
  • Menu items for common php code, like an if() block. Useless. Easier to type it.
  • Bracket completion, Quote completion etc...could be useful if it were done really well. It just usually gets in the way

I didn't add to the list the things which I don't see the point of but others might like. For example, in my opinion, code snippets are just annoying. Cut-and-paste-coding usually means you aren't reusing code as you ought. Some others might like them.

Debuggers could be nice, but only in a real pinch. Usually they take forever to set up, don't always simulate the real environment well enough, and are usually overused to compensate for bad coding methods. I can only imagine how much of the IDE development time that could have been well spent elsewhere has been squandered on these.

WYSIWYG editors. What you see is NOT usually what you get anyway. But once again, this is probably good for some people. Personally, I would rather know HTML/CSS than try to learn how your particular wysiwyg thingy is supposed to "work".


In summary: anything that makes coding easier to do and see is what we care about. Anything that helps us with saving/managing that code (ftp, source control integration) are things that would be really nice to have.

Jcx.Software's VS.PHP does really well at most of this stuff btw. It's nice in that they are piggybacking off of a great IDE. While I liked their software, I would suggest a few things for them since they posted in here: customizable highlighting. What if I want to change the background color of php blocks for example and make identifiers maroon. Also: FTP integration would be nice. It's often necessary to test pages on the remote server. Make it easy and convenient for us to put them there.


Sat Jul 16, 2005 11:01 am
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Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:13 am
Posts: 1
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Hi,

What about this:

1. Different people need different feautres. Only the flexibility of the software you are talking about can solve this problem.

2. Allow users to adjust the behaviour of the software, but do not make the choose from menus. Menus are for things changing often. Important things like indentation or colours used by the syntax highlighting engine are chagned very rarely so they should be "hidden" somehow.

3. Fast in terms of typing. I'm sure some of you have tried Vim and use it's hjkl to decrease the pain after 8 hours of editing.

4. Fast in terms of performance. Has anyone seen anything as fast as perl?

5. And the last thing, probably the most important one: configuration and extension language: PHP.

At work I use Vim but my favourite editor is GNU Emacs -- the most flexible thing on Earth. I think, that flexibility is even more important than functionality -- you can always add functionality (either writing some code yourself or by adding some kind of plugin) if you think it's missing.

BTW: this is my first post here, nice to meet all of you guys.

_________________
Piotr Filip Mieszkowski
pfmieszkowski at gee (you know) mail com


Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:31 am
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Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:41 pm
Posts: 3
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the answer: http://www.jedit.org


Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:55 pm
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